Tuesday, June 12, 2012

Mark Biltz, False Prophet?

 Addendum: For those of you who have not read this post but who have emailed me with horror that I would say such a thing concerning Mark Biltz..>READ THE POST< Duh?



I read the following concerning Hebrew Roots posted by Geoffrey Grider on his website: [Grider is not a stranger to me]

The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement Origins and Beliefs

It use to be that when I would Google Mark Biltz's name I would have two, maybe three pages of information declaring Pastor Mark Biltz a false Prophet. This seems to have changed as it is hard to find these pages now? The number one claim was that Pastor Mark Biltz set the date for the return of the Messiah. In reading Geoffrey Griders work over the years I can conclusively declare this man, clueless! [And so it goes.]

I met Pastor Mark Biltz 6 years ago in Vancouver, WA I have come to know him, his wife and family. I have sat listening to his teaching for 6 years. I know his heart, I know the Joy in his heart and I know why he does what he does. I follow Yahweh to be sure but I also recognize what he does through believers.

This post is not about defending Pastor Mark Biltz but rather a challenge to folks like Geoffrey Grider and all of those who continue to miss characterize Pastor Mark Biltz. 

This post is actually a great big challenge for many of you as well!  Most of these folks who ridicule Pastor Mark Biltz have never met him, nor have they watched any of his teaching. I can tell by the articles that are written.  At times I have to laugh at what I read because it is so obvious to me that "clueless" continues to be the operative word.

What I do,  is also called heresy but trust me I know what is in my heart to do and so I do what my heart directs. Black folks (not all) think I am the devil himself.  The devil wishes he had God's hand on him in the way that God's hand is on me.....The devil can pond rocks for all I care! I understand what Pastor Mark Biltz and others who understand "Knowledge Increased" go through. I cannot even get Black Pastors to allow me to come and share what God did to me 6 years ago....I have to keep dusting off my shoes!

Currently, this little congregation, El Shaddai Ministries, about 700 folks reaches the entire globe via the internet. Visitors from all over the world come to either sit in the congregation or speak. El Shaddai Ministries is nearing two million visitors to the website MONTHLY and a core group of followers world wide of about 50,000 who download the free material weekly and or who listen to the teaching (El Shaddai Ministries does not prepare sermons) about Israel, about YHWH and about the YESHUA [Jesus the Christ if you insist on a Greek and then, Catholic foundation alone] from a Hebraic [Originally Purposed] perspective. Within the body of regular attendees are Pastors, Ministers and Christians from every denomination known. Many former Catholics attend as well. It is my personal wish that the entire building, neighborhood and city of Tacoma be filled with Catholics so that they might hear, TRUTH! This includes the African America as well. [Translation, Black Folk!]

Okay back to the challenge:

The "False Prophet" and those "blundering imbecile" [according to one website] who follow him will be live streaming the entire service from now on via the world wide web beginning June 16thth or this coming Saturday. I am sure that the kinks and difficulties that are always a part of starting a new thing will have to be worked out but now YOU can decide for yourself if the "False Prophet" is really a false anything! You can do so weekly if this is your focus. Oh, by the way...its FREE!

Simply go to the website of El Shaddai Ministries HOME PAGE and look for the following


What better way to determine if what you read verses what can now be seen live is the truth? I am of the mind that should you watch the live stream for a couple of weeks you will most likely see just how Knowledge has Increased in these last days of Gentile rule.

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run back and forth, and knowledge shall be increased."
God was never speaking about computers and technology but rather HIS BOOK!

Daniel 12:9 He said, Go your way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.
Perhaps what Daniel was commanded to do others today are reading from a book now opened. Perhaps the Hebrew roots movement is more than Geoffey Grider and others like himself are being allowed to see...?
Well, you now have the ability to decide for yourself what goes on inside of El Shaddai Ministries as well where you will hear Pastor Mark Biltz say over, and over again:

"I do not set dates but I will teach you God's appointed times or Festivals"
So,  come on in

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting an honest description of the truth that is being proclaimed at El Shaddai ministries. You are absolutely correct, the critics of Mark Biltz unfortunately have limited understanding of God's word and essentially ZERO knowledge of the "hebrewness" of the bible they hold in their hands. This is an incredibly sad truth in light of the reality that many of these critics hold positions of leadership within the church. The reality is that satan is masterful in confusion and distraction. He has been this way from the beginning and continues to be so today. Anyone who has spent time at the feet of our Master learning His ways through the lenses of "hebraic roots" is living a profoundly changed life; the veil has been removed. The truth is that we all need to pray for pastors like Mark Biltz.

Geoffrey Grider said...

I stand by each and every word of both articles I wrote. Mark Biltz has nothing but a sneerful contempt for bible believing Christians. Christianity absolutely has Hebrew roots, but this phony Hebrew Roots Movement is nothing but a reemergence of the Judiazers that used to plague Paul. Mr. Biltz, by his own admission,is trying to lead Christians back under the yoke of the Law which is a 100% violation of the entire book of Galatians.

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/writers/GG/the-hebrew-roots-cult-part-2.htm

Jeff Morton said...

And I shall continue to vehemently disagree with you Mr. Grider..... Incidentally, have you ever met Mark Biltz? Just curious!

Anonymous said...

Well I sat in this congregation for two years. The red moon is what made us leave. It is not scriptural and Mark no matter how sincere he may be, he is still wrong in most of his teachings. Within a week he had changed it to fit and then changed it again to make it fit. And again until he had it down pat. We all have the hand outs. A certain person, will leave unnamed, at EL Shaddai, a leader call the prophecy people and it exploded when it got on the net. All those sign seekers. I have all the papers he did on this..... a phoney. I am a real Hebrew and can tell you from personal experience, he takes from others books and then makes them his own lecture. He is following Rabbis. who are call themselves Jews but are not. He is not a Hebrew in his ideas. He needs to sit down and get knowledge from reading the word. He doesn;t have the basic understanding of scripture and what it teached. And yes I do know him and Vicki and have been to their home. And to be more blunt is is about the money, he is padding his pocket on at the expence of the Messiah. He didn't have a job so along came El SHaddai. He is doing pretty good NOW!!!!! A whole lot of us left that congregation because of his untruths in many areas. THe red moon was the key breaker. That also includes Art, he needs to get understanding also and many people have TRIED to talk to Mark and Art, to no avail.

Jeff Morton said...

To: Anonymous said

Why not identify yourself? You make strong assertions and state,"Tried to talk to Mark and Art, to no avail" Well, this being the case why anonymous?

Claude Armstrong said...

Boy! Wouldn't it be nice for people who hide behind "Anonymous" to denounce others with claims at least point to available material they claim supports their position!!??

This poor soul who talks about Mark's "Red Moon" claims to be "I am a Real Hebrew and can tell you from personal experience, he takes from others books and then makes them his own lecture . . ." but gives no point of referral to supporting evidence whatsoever!

Is this not the mark of a slanderer?

'fraid so, "Anonymous Mark Biltz' detractor." You, and your arrogance simply do not hold a drop of Truth, although I and the rest of those reading your point would be happy to see your "evidence." It's the sign of insincerity to not show "proof."

Daniel McQuiston said...

I, too, have know Pas Mark for almost 6 years. I also do not agree with everything that he teaches but he also admits when he is sharing his "opinion". I think Mark is a phenomenal teacher. I left El Shaddai for other reasons. I actually miss Marks teaching. Having said that I have also encountered some of "Anonymous' experiences but I will not hid behind anonymous. It is a coward and a gossiper that cannot expose his/her name and show evidence of the facts, not opinion.

John Z said...

The law being done away with in Galatians is the Oral Law. Most Christians have no idea of the Talmud or Oral Law. Judiazers are ones who place the bondage of the Oral Law on man...to call one who places Torah on man (and Scripture says Torah is not a burden)is not a Judiazer.

Jeff Morton said...

The following Comment came to me but then vanished...I contacted Monica asking if I could post my copy of her comment...she said yes. Here it is [Thanks Monica] Rose of Sharon Acres - Goat Milk Product

Apr 10 (2 days ago)

to me
Sad to think that Mr Grinder may be one who stands before the Lord and has to listen to Matthew 7...I never knew you. Without the bridal covenant (Torah), He cannot know (yada) which is the
relationship between a man and wife. It would be adultery. Jesus' own words said that he didn't come to destroy the Torah and that not one jot of tittle would pass till all is complete. How can those
words be ignored or trampled on to compile a lawless doctrine. A good study into the word iniquity in Matthew 7 will show you that word means 'you who practice without the Torah'. But, blind eyes
and hard hearts will always go the way of Pharaoh and remain in the bondage of one's theology. If Torah isn't real, then Psalm 119 is the biggest lie of scripture.

After watching Pastor Marks teaching for a couple of years, we were able to visit his service and meet him in Washington. While not infallible (as none are), his heart is genuine and passionate about
God, His Son and His entire word....not just bits and pieces of it. He's also not afraid to admit a mistake and correct it when brought to his attention. That in itself is something we don't see in most
christian circles.



I couldn't figure out how to post and didn't want to be anonymous! You can use Monica in Texas as commentor.

Blessings,
Monica
Follow us on FB: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rose-of-Sharon-Acres/37386137621

Pr 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law (Torah) as the apple of thine eye.

Linda Kirby said...

I don't know what the issue is about Mark's teaching of the "red moon". Now, that was last year. I wonder if they have changed their thinking now that they have found out about the 4 blood red moons that are coming? If that is what they are talking about, seems they have no ears to hear! Sad! I just watched his video on the 4 blood moons and it was fascinating and right on the mark! He's not the only one teaching this now! All the scholars are. I was sooo impressed with the video!
Linda Kirby,
Millington, TN.

Timothy Biltz said...

Mark Biltz is my brother, and as such I have known him all my life! Mark is a humble and holy servant of Yeshua. We do not agree 100% but there is no denying Yeshua's presence in Mark's ministry.

C said...

Oh, my... call me simple minded... but isn't Pastor Mark simply stating what the Bible says and ,with reference to the blood moons, what scientists are stating? And don't almost all pastors and rabbi create sermons that reference the Bible as well as other books? Sitting in El Shaddai for four years I have never heard him do more than state the facts and allow people to draw their own conclusions... when he has referenced a teaching or story that is not strictly biblical he has made note of it, so that people can take it for what it's worth. And a "judaizer" like Paul faced? I am so confused by how you can actually believe such a statement... for one thing Paul and our dear Savior were and ARE Jewish. Paul did not give up his Jewishness or love for the Word upon his meeting with Y-shua. And the Word clearly states these things are to be celebrated for eternity... not until someone thinks up a cuter holiday with more commercial value. When Paul talked about renewing our minds in G-d's Word...I don't think he meant he was sitting down reading and re-reading his own letters! I am pretty sure he was referencing the Torah-- the embodiment of our Savior. I guess I should not be shocked that some would think this is a cult or false prophesy... Satan I'm sure is pitching a big ol' hissy fit trying to distract us from the Truth. It just amazes me because I have never seen Pastor Mark exalt himself... only the Word. And if you attend El Shaddai and just take a look at and have a conversation with the incredible variety of people in attendance you will see a group of people who are living by the freedom of grace attempting to shed their sinful old selves and live a life that is observant of G-d's WHOLE Word. For instance I left out the first vowel in G-d and Y-shua... not because I think I will get a black mark against me for casually writing His name, but rather because it reminds me of the power of His name! Praise Him! And may more people come to the richness of life offered through observing His Word!

Anonymous said...

I have followed and listened to Marks teaching about the blood moons since 2008. I started to share with my family and friends about these occurances and to also share with them about the fact that so many of the signs that Jesus said would occur right before he would return for his bride is happening right now. I heard Mark say loud and clear that he was not setting a date for the rapture. He did teach about the significance of the feast of trumpets feast day and its meaning. By knowing this it has encouraged me in my walk with the Lord to live each day for Him and to watch for His soon return. Thankyou Mark, keep sharing Gods truth. Wendie in Kent, Wa

Jonathan Hix said...

Just as a thought if Jesus had done away with the law or taught it to be done away with he would have been a false prophet and would be disqualified as the messiah . If the apostles the disciples of Jesus taught against the law aka Torah they would be false prophets and/or teachers. The Torah is the base of our Christian faith. If you do away with Torah you have nothing to define how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies. Proving him to be the messiah. As Christians we need to understand when Paul said in 2 Timothy that all doctrine is good for teaching, correcting, etc.... He was not talking about the gospels he didn't have them he was not talking about his own writings that would be pretty arrogant.he was talking about Torah, the psalms, and the prophets aka the Old Testament. We need to go to the bible to learn how to be changed into the new man(creation), not look in the word to find a way to justify our old life. The church today Is much like the Pharisees of Jesus's day, repent Gods teachings are not a burden , it is the light and easy yoke, sin and the curse the penalty of sin is the heavy burden we once carried. We are free from the bondage of sin not from Gods teachings, his teachings are his love story to us, they are to protect us. Just as our children don't understand all the rules we give them we will not understand why God gave us all his commands, love and trust him, seek him and he will give you wisdom. The teachings of grace in church as a license to sin our keeping people in bondage. They don't see the need to turn from there old ways they are the house that the evil spirit left and when he returned he found the house cleaned and put in order so it went and got 7 spirits greater than it and took the house over again. If you don't fill the house with the spirit of God through his truth , you will end up worse than you were before your life got cleaned up. Paul teaches this again in 1 Corinthians 5:5. You must seek after righteousness, there is no once saved always saved nothing can steal you away but you can walk away, you can break convenient with him. God will not force himself in your life, if you reject him he will turn you over to your own destruction.

zanookie said...

I have never met Pastor Mark personally but was led to his ministry through God giving me a desire to learn Hebrew. Just out of the blue one day sometime ago I had an uncontrollable desire to learn and examine the Holy language. In doing so I ran across the El Shaddai ministry online the live streaming of a Saturday shabbat service and all of a sudden I knew this was what God was preparing me for. I never felt so blessed in my life and I watch it everytime there is a service on Shabbat. I can feel the presence of the Lord when they have the worship service. It just feels so right my spirit is hungry for kind of teaching delivered in pastor Mark's revealing of our Hebrew roots and all the miss translations in God's word. He is a humble man of God desperately trying to wake people up that have been deceived into thinking the torah is done away with. Why would God do away with something he personally came down down from heaven to deliver to his children and then command us to teach it to our children from generation to generation. God bless pastor Mark and the entire El Shaddai ministry and may it grow world wide.

JewishPrincezz said...

Shalom, I enjoy livestreaming with Mark Biltz, and I see where he is spreading the love of Israel and torah to Christians, as well as acting as a source of sanity and reason to the Hebrew Roots Movement.

I am a Jewish follower of Yeshua, and following him in all he taught, which was torah. My only concern is hearing Biltz talk about every denomination and ethnic group showing up at his congregation, but he never mentioned Jews. I don't know if any Jewish people attend his congregation, although he has had Jewish guest speakers; those who believe in Yeshua as Messiah and those who don't. I wonder if Biltz and El Shaddai wish to distance themselves from Jewish believers in order to keep in the good graces of the Jewish community and Israeli officials?

I sent them an email on their site asking questions along this line. Don't get me wrong, I truly appreciate everything Christian Zionists and Judeophiliac/torah honoring groups do. But I have a concern that while these groups raise millions of dollars in support of Israeli charities, they refuse to assist Jewish believers in Israel, many who face persecution. They speak out about the evils of antisemitism, but are strangely silent about persecution of Jewish believers in Israel and elsewhere. Now this may have changed, but I am not aware of it.

I don't understand how you conclude that persons of color are not drawn to torah, as I know many who are. You might be talking about racist replacement theology groups such as Black Hebrews/Israelites.

Rhonda Wilson said...

JewishPrincezz,

What a blessing from G-d to hear that you found true salvation in Yeshua! I can't answer regarding if Jews attend El Shaddai, but I can make a statement regarding the Messianic Synagogue I attend.

First, I am a Gentile and was led by G-d through studying his word to learn about, and eventually worship with, Messianic Jews. What a joy it has been! We have people from all counties around the world, every race, creed, and background you can imagine yet we all become one in our worship of Yeshua, G-d and Torah.

Most of our leaders are Jewish as is our Rabbi. It is the Messianic Jewish mission to go 'first to the jews, then to the gentiles'. Some might find this upsetting, but it is what Yeshua said to do. :-)

Search for Messianic Jewish Alliance and you can find a Synagogue near you to visit. There are over a dozen in the City I live in.

To all, what is happening all over the world (the gathering of G-d's people) is going to be upsetting to those in the established religions on all sides. It is regrettable, but understandable. It is human nature.

I remind myself that 'love overcomes a multitude of sins' and hope folks remember that towards me as mine are many. :-) If we are loving and gentle with each other, even if we are being attacked - especially if we are being attacked - it will be to G-d's glory.

Shalom from Yeshua!

Anonymous said...

I watched Pastor Mark for over a year (Jan 2013 until Feb 2014) and I can honestly say that I watched his teachings with an "open mind." I finally stopped because of the blood moons NONSENSE. The people that are buying into this teaching are taking verses OUT OF CONTEXT,
where is the darkening of the sun? The verse in Joel is talking about the Day of the Lord. What did Yeshua say about people who needed signs? He called them a "wicked and perverse generation." I don't need to look at some sign to know the return of our Lord is not too far in the future.

I was also greatly troubled by his willingness to appear repeatedly on TBN and on the Jim Bakker show. The people on the TBN network are peddling the word of God for profit, open your eyes! Take a look at the story about them in the Orange County Register that ran a few years ago. Anyone with any modicum of integrity would not be associating with any of them. I also realized that Pastor Mark was taking material from others (his Solomon as a type of antichrist teaching) and passing it off as his own, stating that nobody else had ever taught that. Jacob Prasch has been teaching about this for YEARS and he is someone who is a scholar and who has a genuine knowledge of Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, Biltz is not a scholar and I honestly do not know what his academic background is but I know he is not someone who would ever be considered a bible scholar.

I also do not agree with his stance about not evangelizing Jews and his association with John Hagee.

I think the Hebrew Roots movement has a lot of false teachers pervading it, sadly.

I have absolutely no ax to grind against Pastor Mark. These are my observations after watching and listening to El Shaddai's teachings 2xWk for over a year.

Since I am a nobody, my name is not relevant. I'm just someone who loves to study the Word of God.

For a good debunking on the blood moons, I suggest you watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--kA2-5z2zI

Jeff Morton said...

Of course I disagree with anonymous. ...but thought I would post his observations

Sue Phillips said...

I am a Jewish roots teacher in our church. I have been studying this for over 25 years and the Lord opened the door for me to teach. Yes, tradition does not want to except who the early church really was. I run into obstacles constantly.
To me it is so simple to understand now that I have the tool of my Jewish roots. Tradition has robbed us of the truth. But God's grace in these end times has opened our eyes. I feel sorry for those who do not have an open mind and cling to their traditional rules.
When I got into finding the pagan roots of the "church" today my eyes flew wide open! Our head has been in the sand! But yes Yeshua has come alive for me in the real sense of biblical truth.

chapmaned24 said...

My roommate loves this stuff. Now, I am a Christian, and I can't stand what he listens to. I see that someone referenced the words of Matthew 5:17 earlier on, that Jesus did not come to do away with, or destroy the "torah". Hmmm. Well, they forgot the words "or the Prophets". Jesus was discussing prophecy, not the old covenant. The Torah is Genesis thru Deuteronomy. But the Old Covenant begins in Exodus 20, not Genesis 1. Yes, the Law of Moses has been done away with, but PROPHECY is not done away with. It seems to me that my roommate as well as you people mix up the word TORAH with the word LAW. Matthew 5:17 is NOT discussing the Ten Commandments, or any of the do's and dont's. It is discussing prophecy. My roommate is attempting to act like a Jew, when he is not a Jew. My best friend, however, is a Jew, and he is a Christian. Thank God he acts like a Christian rather than a professing Christian pretending to be Jewish. I can't stand my Gentile roommate always saying Yeshua, when it is Jesus. I can't stand my roommate saying Yahweh, when it is just simply God. I am what I am, God told Moses. That's all that is needed. I bees what I bees.

Oh, and if you take that to the Greek, I exist. Am means "be", and "be" means exist.

The Law (Torah) vs. The Law (Old Covenant). The Law (Old Covenant) is done away. It's law vs. faith, not law plus faith. The law is for the lawless. Christians are NOT considered lawless. Christians are considered righteous. The law is not for the righteous, but for the lawless. The law was given SO THAT sin would increase. The Bible states that.

Romans 5:13 states BEFORE THE LAW sin was in the world, but where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 4 states that because the law works wrath, where no law is, there is no transgression.

1 John 3:4 states that SIN is the transgression of the law. Romans 3 states that the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 7 states that BEFORE THE LAW CAME for Paul, he was alive (spiritually), then the law came, and he died (spiritually). KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil killed him. Just like Adam and Eve. No knowledge, no death.

Christians are not under the law, just like Abraham.

Very Respectfully,

Edward R Chapman

Jeff Morton said...

Thank you Edward for sharing your thoughts.

Anonymous said...

For anyone who is truly interested in "Hebrew Roots" or the messianic movement, I'd suggest watching Dr. Randall Smith's One Hour, One Book study of the book of Hebrews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r961X6FXwpw

This answered all the questions and concerns I had regarding Jewish Roots, etc.

Jeff Morton said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r961X6FXwpw

Thank you Anonymous for posting this...Have to watch this again...So much I agreed with so much I did not...Grafted in means what exactly?...How many brides are there? A light to the nations for what reason? So much I am not clear on with his dissertation. Common wealth of Israel is what?

Anonymous said...

Yes, I know what you mean. I've had the advantage of listening to the podcast from the church he pastors, as well as reading his blog. He's become my favorite teacher. He's excellent with regard to the cultural mindset during the time of Yeshua. I spent a lot of time listening to his material before I watched that video so I think that gave me an advantage. He is the first person who teaches on a Sunday that I trust (and he will be the first to say Sunday is not the Sabbath). If you have time he really is worth the listen. The youtube studies are "overviews." God Bless!

Jeff Morton said...

I listened to Dr Randall Smith a few times and with a couple of other folks to get their opinion..We agree...He basically is saying the Old Testament is for the Jews and the New testament is for the church...

This is where I part company with his concept...

chapmaned24 said...

What makes you think that you are still under the Law of Moses? The first half of Romans 6:2?

My roommate thinks that if you love Jesus (the English version), that you are to be "obedient" to the Law of Moses.

Did you know that there is a difference between the Law of God and the Law of Christ?

What is the Old Covenant? Why do they call it old if it is still in effect? What does it entail? What put it in effect?

Was Jesus sacrificed for nothing? There is no more sacrifices. So why preach the Law of Moses?

Who is Yeshua? Joshua or Jesus? I thought those from Tacoma, Washington spoke English?

When someone tells me that Jesus doesn't exist, I say, sure he does. He mowed my lawn last week.

My point with that joke, is that we don't speak Hebrew, or Spanish, or Greek.

Heysus in Spanish, Jesus in English. What's with the Yeshua stuff if you aren't Hebrew/Jewish speaking Hebrew on a normal basis?

I never did get that politically correct stuff.

Ed Chapman

Roy Sharma said...

Name one bible teacher who has got it 100% correct - ever? If the bible speaks of growing in grace and knowledge, then it must not be possible to have it 100% right anyway. I have been listening to El Shaddai for 3 years and in my view they are providing an excellent service to the Body of Christ and doing a great job challenging the existing Christian paradigm.

Sabrina White said...

Mr. Chapman, I find your comment ignorant to say the least from a Hispanic perspective. The fact of the matter is that Yeshua (His proper name) was born and raised as a Jew in the land of Israel. Translation "man" has changed His name Not G-d. In order for any Jewish person to accept Him as the Messiah He had to follow every word of the Torah. Deu 13 discusses the characteristics of a false prophet. You should read and study this again if you have not already done so. It states (paraphrasing here) anyone who comes to you and states they are a prophet and tells you to follow other gods is false. Following other gods is- the leading away from G-d and His ways (the Torah). Now if it is true and Yeshua created new "laws" and says the Torah is done away with then by definition He is a false prophet. Yeshua did not come with new commandments nor to change the ways of G-d. He came to show the people how the Torah is to be observed. There were so many "man laws" incorporated at the time of His first coming that the people were following those laws before they would follow the Torah. (By the way it is not called the “old testament” nor was it changed to that name except by one lost man’s interpretation). Meaning just like most Christians of today they think as you do that the Torah (G-d's instructions on how we should live under his roof in His kingdom) has been done away, when in fact it has not. For this very, reason the Jewish people have rejected Him as their Messiah. My belief and salvation of Yeshua did not come to full light, until I understood His position and how He was directly connected to the Torah. If Yeshua is in fact the Word of G-d as the scriptures write of Him, especially the Torah itself. Then for Him to claim the Torah (old testament) has been done away with (as you and so many others have said), then what you are in fact saying is that Yeshua (Jesus) has committed suicide to His own cause. And all His works have been done away with as well. If G-d is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, then how could there be a change in His Word... in His Son... The fact of the matter is that nothing has changed and the "laws" that were actually done away with was not the commandments or Torah, but in fact the "laws of man" were the ones done away with and the Torah is being "ENFORCED". All Christians who reject the Torah are in fact rejecting Yeshua and do not know Him as they think they do. The Gospels explain this matter clearly. When Yeshua tells those who come to him and call out, "Lord, Lord" and He rejects them and tells them "get thee from me, for I know you not, you workers of lawlessness" He is referring to those who are without the Torah...those who have done away with it. Just a thought....

zanookie said...

Way to go Sabrina you told it just like it is girl. i thought I knew it all till God lead me to studying the Hebrew alephbet and that lead me directly to El Shaddai ministries. Wow was I blinded to the teachings of the church now I have a much more closer relationship with my Lord. God Bless

chapmaned24 said...

Sabrina,

I was being sarcastic, not ignorant. Think of it as satire. I am not a racist. But this much I do know. The Tower of Babel changed everyone's languages. I speak English as my first language. The way that a foreign word is transliterated to another person's language is fine, so I find absolutely no need to call Jesus by a Hebrew name when I speak English. I know the transliterations, from Hebrew, to Greek, to Spanish, to English. I've debated this topic before. I have a sarcastic personality, and I love snark. I actually do find this topic to be a comedy, because way too many people take this language thing a bit too serious. I actually know Jews. I have taken classes from those Jews who teach Hebrew. I know Jews are more than happy to teach Gentiles anything that they want to know about God. I respect the Jews. But then, I see people pretending to be Jewish, and it makes me sick. Just as much as it makes me sick to hear my white daughter saying the word, nigga, when she has no clue as to what it means. The Jewish friends that I have speak English, and to me, they don't say Torah. They say, First 5 Books, or Law. They speak in my language. There is nothing wrong with transliteration. But, I know, you pretenders seem to think that there is. And therefore, I could care less about your dogmatic teaching that we are supposed to call Jesus, a bunch of gutteral sounds, like a Jew or German. God speaks my language. It's like I tell the Catholics, Latin is not the official God language. You people are all funny.

Having said all that, you are incorrect about the law of Moses that we are still to observe the law of Moses.

Romans 6...get beyond verse 2, then you will see that verse 1 is a rhetorical question. Then read Romans 3, that the righteousness of the law is without the law. Then read Galatians, that Paul, thru the law, is dead to the law. The law is only in effect when you are alive, and we are dead in christ, with Christ. Romans 7. Then there is Romans 4, discussing as to WHY Abraham didn't have the law. Then there is Romans 5:13 discussing that there is no transgression where the in no law, and that there was once a "before the law" in which Abraham was at. The law is a barrier to faith, as the law is not of faith. I could go on and on and on. NO we are not to observe the law of moses, we are to observe the law of Christ, which is NOT the law of Moses.

I could sit down with you over lunch and dinner and into the evening to enjoy a cup of coffee and I would LOVE that, in order to got thru each and every one of your dogma.

If you want to be a legalist, you will be judged by the law. But Christ died and he is not subject to the law, and we died with Christ.

Get back with me, and I will have more and more and more for you.

Ed

Ed

chapmaned24 said...

This is a follow up to Sabrina,

First, you said:
" it is not called the “old testament” nor was it changed to that name except by one lost man’s interpretation"

I have no idea where you came to that conclusion, but the book of Hebrews 9 explains it as first COVENANT, and that BLOOD was sprinkled. Jesus is the NEW COVENANT and BLOOD was shed.

Then the Bible discusses the word TESTATOR, and explains what that word is all about, hence the word testament.

When I say that I have no idea where you are coming up with this, that is rhetorical, because I really do know. I've heard it before from other legalists in the Calvinist world, as well as the 7th day Adventists, too.

Moving on...We are NOT under the law, and here is why:

1 John 3:4
sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 3:20
the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 4:15
where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead

Romans 7:4
ye also are become dead to the law

Galatians 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law,

Romans 7:8
For without the law sin was dead.

What is the Righteousness of God?

Works vs. No Works

Works

A worker is one who works, right? Well, the Bible states that a worker is one who is a “doer”.

We should all know that the Old Testament, aka, Old Covenant, begins in Exodus 20, NOT Genesis 1.

This is where God spoke to ALL of the children of Israel at Mt. Sinai.

After God Spoke the Ten Commandments to ALL of the children of Israel, they were afraid that if God continued to speak to them, that they would die, so they asked if Moses would speak to them about what God wants of them, instead of God himself.

Exodus 20:19
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

So, Moses continued to listen to God, and Moses gave the word of the Lord to ALL of the children of Israel.

Exodus 24:3
And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do.

Notice the last word in that verse, “do”.

Later, in Deuteronomy 5, Moses once again reiterates what was spoken in Exodus 20 – 24.

After that review, the children of Israel responds:

Deuteronomy 6:25
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.

Again, notice the word, “do”. That is works of righteousness. Obedience to the law of Moses is known as works of Righteousness.

Galatians 2:21
if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested

Romans 4:5
faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:13
not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace

Galatians 3:12
the law is not of faith

Galatians 3:21
if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

There is ONLY two things that can be "IMPUTED" to us.

1. Sin
2. Righteousness

Righteousness can only be imputed in two different ways.

1. Works (DEEDS/OBEYING) The Law of Moses
2. Faith

For all have sinned (NOT OBEYED THE LAW OF MOSES).

Then how are we made righteous?

Faith alone without the Law of Moses.

We are now under the Law of Christ, which is the Law of Faith, which is the Law of Freedom and the COMMANDMENTS of Jesus is a singular commandment:

Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself.

For Love fulfills ALL, not just the parchment, but the stones, too, the law of Moses.

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?



Jeff Morton said...

Hello everyone...This is Jeff Morton....smile. I appreciate the discussion but the reason for this article is based on a specific point...Your discussions are starting to look like Facebook...This is not facebook. Thanks

chapmaned24 said...

Sorry about the facebook look, Jeff. I'm not much into the social networking thing at all, but I love the blogs. Thanks for the opportunity to post. Feel free to delete this comment from moderation.

Ed

Jeff Morton said...

Thank You Chapmaned24. I make a point to publish every comment that is not foul, threatening, hateful or too idiotic. Thank you for participating on my blog and YOUR faith. :)...Oh, and I used to believe as you do....so I understand

chapmaned24 said...

Jeff,

My roommate, who is into this "Torah" stuff, was a new roommate the day that my 67 year old Jewish turned Christian friend came by the house with "pork chops". He brought a lot of "pork chops", and I cooked them. But my new roommate refused to eat "pork chops", and the word that came out of his mouth was "Torah". My Jewish friend looked at him and just rolled his eyes at him. My Jewish friend was raised Jewish, and his mother is still Jewish. But, it is my roommate that got me interested in learning as to why he is so dogmatic about things, when my Jewish friend knows Christianity, and knows that he can eat pork. That is why I am here.

Ed

Ed

Jeff Morton said...

Torah simply means...INSTRUCTIONS" Jesus taught...TORAH
Men can take less than 10 seconds destroying a ham sandwhich!...
my email uncoloirngrace@gmail.com (for the blog)


Sabrina said...


Jeff, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to voice myself. I just have one thing to say. Following the Torah or First Five Books or Old Testament (whatever you want to call it, it doesn't change the scripture), is based on showing the love you have for the Father. It is not about trying to be a Jew. I know who I am and where I stand in my salvation. Following G-d's instruction is a form of love, just like I followed the rules of my parents as I was being raised in their house. You listen to your parents not because you fear their iron fist, but because you want to show love. And in any good household the love in return that is received from them is shown through grace, mercy, patience, and guidance. The writings of Paul are difficult to understand, as John states in his writings and can be easily misinterpreted by one of ignorance and lawlessness. John makes this clear to Paul that many can be led away (those who are inexperienced in the Word). I don't care what a Jewish person is doing as far as my life is concerned. I don't act like I'm a Jew, whatever that means, and I am not trying to be one. I just know the Lord is leading me on my path, just as He is leading you on yours. I don't believe in legalism. Meaning I don't observe the Torah because I fear punishment. I do it to show Yeshua my appreciation for His sacrifices and works, because He saved me. I am not closed to the wisdom of others, but I am closed to those who preach against the Word of God (anyone saying the Torah is done away with). So what if I want to live on a righteous path of the Word. No where in the bible does the Lord once say, Do not follow my Word, because I will bring damnation on you. Because it is not the scripture saving me, it is the One who sacrificed Himself on the cross, who holds my life in His hands.

Jeff Morton said...

FYI...The Kingdom plan has always been...THE PLAN..Men walked away from the plan (Satan filled the vacuum) God never changed any part of the plan. The Torah is his set of instructions about thy Kingdom Come, the Crowning of the King and the Marriage Covenant all based on KINGDOM Law. The Good News is an account of what had to happen in order for mankind to be renewed to the plan.....Israel is the royal kingdom...Messiah will be seated on the thrown of the Davidic Kingdom and then he will not go to war for 1000 years because..he is following Kingdom Law Deut 24:5 When a man hath newly taken a wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer his wife which he hath taken. (Satan has to get locked up during this time)

Satan rules with Religion and God rules with covenant Law...Satan's time is short
Paul, understood Moses far better than he understood Billy Graham...Nuff Said! (Sabrina, we have much in common)

chapmaned24 said...

Sabrina and Jeff,

Matthew 5:17-18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Jesus makes it clear that he didn't come to destroy the Torah "OR" the Prophets (TNK). That is Genesis - Malachi. However, within the Torah is the Old Testament/Covenant/Law of Moses. What I am seeing is that your teachings are trying to equate the Law of Moses with the Torah, and that is not true. They are two separate things. The Law of Moses is "within" the Torah, but it is not the Torah.

So, when Jesus discusses Matthew 5:17-18, I see many, many, many folks deleting the word "prophets", and focusing on "law", thinking that it is not TNK, but The Ten Commandments, and such. Once you put the word "prophets" back in, you will see that Jesus came to fulfill prophecy of himself, and that since he didn't come to destroy the TNK, there is still unfulfilled prophecy in the TNK. But he did indeed come to destroy the Law of Moses with The Law of Christ, which is totally different than the Old Covenant, hence, New Testament.

I have much to say, as I have only touched the surface.

Faith to Faith. Abraham=Faith, Moses=Law, Jesus=Faith once more.

When you love thy neighbor, you aren't stealing from your neighbor. Nor do you even think about the law that states, Don't Steal. Therefore, you are not observing a law that states Don't Steal. You are observing a law that states LOVE.

Romans 5:20 tells you why the Law of Moses came about:

Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

In other translations, it states that the reason for the law was for sin to increase.

Bottom line from me, Torah is not the law of Moses. Genesis is not the Law of Moses. Half of Exodus is not the law of Moses. But, Torah is Genesis - Deuteronomy. The Law of Moses is within the Torah, but is not the Torah.

Lastly, it was Peter that said that some things that Paul discusses are difficult...to the unlearned. If you are learned, it isn't difficult.

Ed Chapman

chapmaned24 said...

Jeff,

I must say that I firmly agree with what you stated...but I must also say, that is prophecy, a spiritual interpretation of the carnal.

I don't have any problems with what you stated. What you did, is exactly how spiritual things need to be interpreted.

But, in regards to Billy Graham, he is an evangelist, not a prophecy expert. There is nothing wrong with Billy Graham in the job that he is doing. I understand that at one time he had some bad things to say about Jews. Maybe that is true, I don't know. But the point is, he has a different job in the body than those who has wisdom of interpreting the spiritual prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled.

So, we also do have something in common, although we disagree on the points that I brought up.

Ed Chapman

Anonymous said...

After reading all I am even more confused. God help us with wisdom knowledge and understanding. This one says I follow paul this one ...what matters is I believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour and I believe he will see me through. He is too smart to get me wrong.

Darius said...

I have heard Mr Biltz speak through his website. I have been more encouraged, empowered & inspired. I've been seeking information about the Hebraic/Jewish perspective of the Scriptures, seeing that it was delivered first to our forefather Abraham and then some...

I have read the blogs above and I believe some were on spot & others not. We choose to believe what we want to believe.

First of all, hello Jeff. I'm Darius. Secondly, those who are willing, you can research John 1:1,2, Genesis 26:5, Jeremiah 31:30-34 & Ezekiel 36:22-28, if you need to. Simply put, Jesus(Yeshua) is the Word; He is the same yesterday, today & forever. God shared His Torah with Abraham. Though He didn't give the Law or Teaching(Torah) as we know it, or that we know of, what Teaching then was he given to follow? And before the Lord went forward to judge a few cities, He considered Abraham & said, 'For I know him, that he will command his children & his household after him & they will keep the Way of the Lord...'. (Genesis 18:19). What Way was he going to teach his children & household about? Is there another Way other than Torah? Do we not take this text into consideration as well? Note: I'm not implying that the Lord meant for us to live His Way in our own strength. He's not interested in our 'sweat equity', but our 'obedience equity'. Ask Cain.

In close, concerning Jeremiah & Ezekiel referenced above, the Lord was renewing His covenant with Israel & Judah. He mentioned that He will put His Torah in the inner parts & hearts of His people. Will it be different than what He has already established as principles to live by? Again, I'm not implying one must live 'under' the law. For Gentile believers, myself included, are we truly familia with what we've been made apart of...the renewed covenant, what it says? I believe most are clueless. We are ingrafted into it! Read those references above. What does that mean for us?

I'm only interested in Truth.

Anonymous said...

The fear of God is wisdom, wisdom brings knowledge and knowledge brings understanding.

Fear God and you will gain understanding.

Wolf from Phoenix

Michael Eastman said...

Just a thought provoking question regarding a comment under the discussion with Sabrina, Mr. chapman and Jeff. Mr. Chapman states "faith alone without the law of Moses."
Here is my question to think on, if the law of Moses, given to Moses, by God is no longer important to God, why then is Moses one of the two witnesses who will be sent to prophecy in Revelations 11:3?

Jeff Morton said...

We think of the law as a legal order when in fact it is a manner by which God shows us or instructs what is created or simply, how he get's us to know him......Great question Mr. Eastman

Even Abraham knew God's law or instructions (Gen 26:5)

Michael Eastman said...

Yes, the law is the sacrifices that they were required to give, which we are no longer to follow. Because Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, if we continued to give animal sacrifices then His coming would be pointless. He came so that we do not have to do that today, we can be forgiven by confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness. He also came so that we can live in heaven with Him for eternity! His coming was more important than anything! If we want to just have a platonic relationship with God, than we can do that by being as a infant, only excepting the easy and free things of the Lord. However, I think if we want to truely be mature believers we have to take the entire Bible, not leaving out parts that require things of us. That is how we become a friend of God, to truely know Him and who He is. I don't know about anyone else, but I truley want to know the heart of my master, what He wants, what gets His attention. I want more from Him, which means He requires more from me. Moses was refered to as a friend of God, not just a child of God, because he knew Gods heart, God talked to him face to face. I don't know about you, but I don't want to just be a child (taking only what God freely gives), but I want to be a friend of God! I want Him to speak to me face to face!

Jeff Morton said...

None of the sacrifices had anything to do with what your are repeating dear brother. I would encourage you to understand the sacrificial system in context of the Culture who received these instructions....Your narrative is based on Western Theology...It simply did not exist during the course of the Levitical instructions to Aaron and Moses....Jesus's death had very little to do with the concept you suggest (be well my friend)

chapmaned24 said...

Mr. Eastman,

You had said:
"Yes, the law is the sacrifices that they were required to..."

My response:
Wrong. The law is the first covenant, and it begins with the Ten Commandments.

The Law of Moses, being the 1st/Old Covenant is ALL 613 laws, which includes the Ten Commandments.

It is not correct to categorize the law into sections, i.e., sacrifices, food, ceremony, etc.

The whole law, all 613 commandments, are done away.

Ed Chapman

chapmaned24 said...

Jeff,
What exactly is, "Western Theology"? Can you be more specific?

The book of Hebrews states that Jesus is the last sacrifice. It's as if Jesus said, "Hey guys, I'm the last sacrifice you will ever need, for I cover all sins, past, present, and future. You never need to sacrifice another animal ever again."

Ed Chapman

Jeff Morton said...

Again, you do not understand the scriptures, the sacrificial system, the final Atonement (Yom Kippur) and why these laws, commandments are restored during the millennial reign or another way to say millennial kingdom when the King takes a bride and keeps the commandment Deuteronomy 24:5 or Ezekiel 44 (The entire millennial chapter) You understand Christianity very well but not the scriptures...2 Timothy 3:16 is addressing the Bible,, the letters of the Brit Chadasha (New Testament, proper) had not been penned and John 5:46 is addressing Moses knowing Jesus. Equally, the Bureans checked/confirmed Paul about Jesus via the Tanakh (Old Testament) they did not confirm Paul's writings based on Paul's writings (Acts 17:11)...anyway guys this is not the place to have this discussion...Bless you both....
this is my last post with regard to the question asked of me...Thanks for visiting my blog

Michael Eastman said...

Ok Jeff, I am pretty new to this still. You say my thoughts are "western theology" I am always willing to hear, learn and study for myself. So if you don't mind, what is it that you would say I am missing? In terms a newer person can understand and with scripture reference if you could?

Jeff Morton said...

Oh...Western Theology...what Emperor Constantin
introduced to replace the Hebraic influence of the Scriptures

or "Replacement Theology" to be precise

chapmaned24 said...

Thanks for clarifying, however, I am certainly not Catholic, so Constantin does nothing for me. That theology hates the Jews.

Before I go, thanks for letting me post comments here. I still say that I am right, you are wrong. Based on what I see, from the Bible, you are under a curse for following/being obedient to the law of Moses.

No one is justified by it.

Ed Chapman

Jeff Morton said...

We completely agree...no one is justified by the law...Catholicism has nothing to do with what occurred via Constantin and I have been wrong many, many times.....You still do not understand why I have addressed everything thus far...and that's okay ....

Jeff Morton said...

How can I reach you Mr. Chapman...my email is uncoloringrace@gmail.com

Jeff Morton said...

For the first time since starting this blog in 2007 I am not going to post comments from a couple of people..I am ending a particular discussion on my blog is all. Thanks everyone!